What was initially thought of as a case of poison ivy symptoms was later discovered to be an irritation in the C2 nerve. And no, it’s not from the allergenic plant. Drs. Frederick Schurger and Beth Bagley discuss how sensitive the head can be when the zombie virus of chickenpox, a.k.a. shingles, irritates the C2 nerve route as it moves up into the head in the occipital nerve. In this episode, they take us into this particular case and how they treat the patient through chiropractic. And, as we all should view the news skeptically, they talk about aliens in the same light. Tune in to this conversation as they take you from chickenpox back from the dead to the extraterrestrial!
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Shingles, Head Pain & Fast Healing Plus ALIENS!!!
Dr. Bagley, How are you doing?
I’m doing great. How are you?
I’m doing excellent. We’re going to get right to it because we’re tight on time. We’ve had a really busy day. You’re running solo without Dr. Ladd helping out.
Future Dr. Ladd is what we’re calling her in December 2023.
She’s not allowed to be sick.
She’ll get better fast. When you get used to having an extra set of hands that are very capable, it’s amazing how much harder it is.
It makes a difference. I’ve been running my practice solo for years now and I’m back and forth. Do I want somebody here who can help me along? I do. If everyone hears that I’m going to have to get busy, I’ll be running around.
If anybody here is a chiropractic student or doctor who wants a job in a Blair office, contact us. I would love to interview. I’m always interviewing. We have a lot of fun.
Getting back to the busy, I had a young lady call up for her boyfriend and they’ve just gone through a bunch of stuff over the week. He thinks he got into poison ivy. It was no big deal. He washes it off with soap and water like you’re supposed to. Come Saturday, he’s waking up with this intense pain across his scalp. It wasn’t behind his eye. That’s a big thing. He takes some ibuprofen, it’s gone. By Sunday, it was intense to the point where it was a seizure-like motion where every few minutes, he would have this thing where the pain level of his head would be so high that he would weep.
We’re thinking not poison ivy at this point.
My thought was could a little bit of the stuff have gotten behind his eye and worked its way into the brain? What most people forget is that the eye is simply an extension of the brain. This is just the part that we can look out through. The back of my brain was like, “Could this have gotten in and could it be working its way along the brain and into the skull?” I hope not. The good news is it’s not. I will get to that here in a second. I was asking you about sclerotome and dermatomes and what’s interesting is it’s like the little Frankenstein there. He said the pain started above the forehead and then it worked its way back to the head. That spot right there is interestingly enough, a C2 sclerotome.
I had looked that up too.
Let’s talk about sclerotomes and dermatomes quickly. Sclerotomes are pain pathways. This is where pain sensation comes from a certain nerve roof. That’s what we’re looking at different nerve roots. You have general skin sensations and those are from dermatomes. Now some of the pain pathways on the head and the face come from the trigeminal nerve that we’ve talked about in the past. These pain pathways, we didn’t read a book to figure out which pathway we have. It’s close. Oddly enough, what most people don’t realize is the science of dermatomes and sclerotomes came out of Germany around World War II.
That’s creepy right away. I wish we didn’t have that science because it came from a really bad place.
It did. Unfortunately, sometimes you get to take the good with the bad. It moves things forward, but not the way we should be. This is why we don’t do human experimentation anymore and we really shouldn’t. In any case, he’s having all this pain back here and I do my analysis. I find it’s number one and number two, his atlas and his axis are out of place. I start poking the right part of his neck and he is like, “Doc, you can stay there all day long.” I’m already thinking C1 and C2 are probably involved. Sure enough, they were. For whatever reason, I decided to adjust his atlas first before I adjusted his axis.
Interesting. Why you said that that’s such a big deal is because, in the Blair work, the rule is that you go lower to higher. You did the higher first.
In the Blair work, the rule is that you go lower to higher. Click To TweetA lot of chiropractic does that in general because they suggest starting low and working your way up to a higher neurological impact level. For whatever reason, things were pointing to C2 as having a bigger involvement. I wanted to do that one last. That’s where my brain was going. When I adjusted his atlas, it was just a right atlas and right axis, which is a little bit more complicated than simply a right-moving bone. I adjusted his atlas and the pain shut up.
I immediately went into the axis as fast as I could and it calmed down. He was still having symptoms. We’re doing weird things throughout the night. He did get some sleep finally. They were back in the ER because he’s like, “I don’t know what’s going on but this is bad.” I saw them and he said, “Three hours ago, it had all started to calm down completely.” He was at least 50% better. I found this article that I wanted to take a look at but it’s not a full article.
I had a patient before and I hadn’t seen her in quite a while and she was coming back because she was having scalp pain. First thing when I hear scalp pain, I’m like, “Where is it?” If it’s on the sides of the head, one of my first thoughts is giant cell arteritis, which is an autoimmune disease that can lead to blindness. She had seen a couple of doctors before me again and she had already ruled that out and it was in a different place in her head. She was in the same spot that C2. Somebody had said that she has occipital neuralgia and that’s not necessarily true either. Occipital neuralgia is a little bit lower than that.
It would be because occipital neuralgia is more around the occiput, which is going to be more the base of the skull. What’s interesting is they found me online, they almost went down to Dr. Vanos and Glen Carbon because they’d come to my office. I was out of the office on Wednesday morning as I usually am. They were ready to come on in right then and say, “Doc, can you help me with anything?” I got them in that afternoon. That was one of the things that they were thinking it might be because of the way the pain was.
They were able to see a couple of doctors and get to an ER. Everyone is saying, “You got to go see a neurologist.” Sure enough, that’s further down the line. If you need to get a neurologist involved, they’re booked out a couple of months in advance. You might have to wait. Here’s the good news. He is not going to have to wait. What’s interesting about this case is if he came in contact with poison ivy and that triggered things, he saw a new primary because he decided he wanted someone new and they suggested the possibility of shingles.
That’s actually when you said pain in the eye and everything. I thought about that too.
We’ve switched from sclerotomes to dermatomes, but they overlap a lot, especially in the head where the head has been affected by that C2 nerve root. What most people don’t understand about shingles is chickenpox back from the dead.
It’s like zombie chickenpox.
It is very much zombie chickenpox. Folks, if you remember having chickenpox as a kid, you’re probably better off than whatever the kids are getting these days. I don’t know what lasting immunity that shot is. There are some questions about it.
We could do a whole show on that.
To the point, when you’ve had the shingles virus, when it finally runs its course and you have grown immune to it, it then moves into your dorsal root ganglion, which lives in your spinal column. It’s right off the spinal cord, a little bit more out into the vertebra as it’s coming out of the spine. That’s where it lives. If those nerve roots get irritated, they flare up.
When people get irritation, a lot of people don’t realize it’s usually a stress response. It comes at the worst time possible. It’s like you had a death in the family while you’re going to get shingles or if I decided to eat all of the cookies at Christmas time, you’re going to get shingles. If you are prone to getting shingles, it’s things that you do to decrease your immune system, which is stress.
That’s a big part of it. The other thing to remember is shingles run along a dermatome. The easy way to think about dermatomes and what they look like is to imagine a band running across your ribs down to your sternum. Along the ribs is a dermatome for the thoracic nerves where that comes along. Oftentimes, that’s where you’re going to get shingles.
That’s the most common place I would say. Another thing is it’s unilateral. It’s only on one side. You’re going to have a shingle show up just across one patch of your skin. I’ve seen multiple dermatomes that it’s come across, but I’ve personally never seen it go across on two sides. I’m sure it’s happened once in a while.
I remember several years ago, I’ve been in practice and I’m like, “That’s shingles. Ouch.” I went to get adjusted and it got better. One of the things that most people don’t realize about shingles is chiropractic has been helping it. I’m talking chiropractic, not necessarily upper cervical has been helping people with shingles forever.
Two reasons. 1) Oftentimes, you adjust that segment that’s involved. 2) As you were saying, it helps you reduce the stress load that you’re dealing with and your body can relax and you can start working towards better health afterward. It’s understanding how these pieces and parts of the puzzle work together so that way, you can get back to health. This young man, I’m hoping that it keeps on doing better. He gets another 50% reduction and by next week, he’s back at work.
I know that’s going to happen to him. The other thing about shingles is that you have to consider chiropractic care as a long-term. You’ll always have shingles. It’s always in your body. That virus lays dormant. Having lifetime chiropractic care and making sure you’re staying well is such a good idea for so many reasons. If someone has these chronic episodes of shingles, it’s absolutely important to have lifetime quality chiropractic care.
If someone has these chronic episodes of shingles, it’s absolutely important to have lifetime quality chiropractic care. Click To TweetIt used to be that people would not see the cases of shingles like we do now. Decades ago, people would be re-exposed to kids who were getting chickenpox.
Every day, they would have every exposure.
Grandma and grandpa, once or twice a year, would come in contact with it and that would re-inoculate most people from having more problems. With stuff like chickenpox vax, a lot of people aren’t getting exposed to it at all. Now shingles are becoming more on the rise.
I would consider, out of all the vaccines, this one was the dumbest. This one was stupid. It works, but it has caused so many problems with shingles and it continues to.
It begs the question as to what’s the priority, keeping mom at work or making sure the kid has a good strong immune system.
What’s also the priority is these old people are suffering from shingles. Some of them aren’t old. I’ve seen people in their 30s and 40s with shingles that would never have had it. Typically, it’s older adults suffering. If we had allowed these kids to have natural immunity, this outbreak would not be happening.
Anyways, this guy is going to do great and it’s going to be amazing.
Do you think it is shingles?
Honestly, it makes better sense to be shingles with the way it’s happening. As you pointed out, the stress started. I wouldn’t be surprised that he had a little bit of poison ivy that caught up here and cleaned it off, but the back part of his brain was a little bit stressed on it. Here’s the other thing. One and two were out. How do we get one and two out? Usually, there’s some traumatic injury. He was working with an excavator trying to go through a rock and the rock was bashing back at him.
He’s working and the thing is working against him and jostling him in the machine and I confirmed the machine is awesome and has no problems like no machine ever. In any case, the machine was jostling him around and that could have been enough to push something over the edge. Now he’s got the problem. It’s not a quick fix. In his case, it’s a faster fix but it’s going to take time to maintain that going forward.
My patient who had scalp pain was back here, it was scalp tenderness. It hurt for her to touch her scalp. She started with that. She called us and said, “Could this be?” We’re like, “Yes. It could be.” We got her C1 and C2 adjusted and it’s already tons better. It wasn’t shingles. It was just the C2 dermatome that was super angry. C2 is an A-hole. It is a chunky bone. If you take your fingers and run them down right in the center of your spine, run them down, the first thing you run into coming from the base of your skull down is C2. You’ve passed over C1 because you can’t feel it unless you’re on the side. It’s this chunky bone and it’s got two really big joints on the side that line up with C3. Those get angry when they misalign.
Chiropractors don’t even know you have a problem until we poke at it and you wince and get away from us. We could typically figure out if it’s moved posterior or anterior. Our CBCT tells us that. Sometimes we can tell with palpation too because they are chunky bones. Getting them in place hurts a little bit but not super painful.
We can get on the joint and we can palpate it directly and because it’s easier to palpate, you can feel it. With the atlas, we can get on the side. That’s about it. That’s an inch of tissue even before we get to that. The joint itself, the area that is going to be upset and unhappy, we’re not palpating that. We cannot dig a finger in that deep.
I wouldn’t want anybody to. That’s like surgery.
That’s the fun with all of that. Speaking of fun, do you want to go off into the weeds and have a fun little random topic? Aliens are coming.
They’re coming to Mexico.
That’s what I want to talk about. I saw the debunk and I’m like, “This is the worst.”
Are they trolling them? What’s happening there?
What people haven’t realized is within the alien, there is candy because it’s a pinata.
Were those pinatas?
No.
They looked like pinatas. It looks like a little statue. Did they take X-rays?
They have taken X-rays.
I haven’t done any research on this other than a little tiny blur I saw. I was like, “Are you kidding me?”
Here’s what I saw. Apparently, they’re using part of a llama skull and they cut it off so the brain cavity for the llama here is the same size as whatever the brain cavity for this thing is. They turned it around and they put it in this thing. It got worse. The Daily Mail has gone through and they’ve looked at the pictures. I don’t know if we have the whole gallery of the X-rays. This is off the Daily Mail.
We can’t identify the DNA and I’m like, “You’re not trying very hard.” They don’t have good pictures. The debunk that I saw was they’re looking at the fingers. The individual joints and the individual bones in our hand are ordered, some of them are backward. The femur on one side looks to be upside down. On the other side, it looks to be a tibia. People who understood what the bones are in this thing, they’re saying, “That’s not the right bone and that’s not a bone. That bone is upside down and this one is cut off.”
Is it possible that this isn’t a 1,000-year troll? What I’m saying about that is that somebody made up these things 1,000 years ago.
The better possibility is somebody has figured out how to cheat the carbon dating because we do know that you can cheat.
You can use thousand-year-old material.
A little bit of that but they’re looking for organic material, and the nice thing is organic material looks like it’s new. Also, radiocarbon dating looks to see how radioactive is the material because of the two nuclear bombs that went off. We can tell going back new stuff has the nuclear material integrated into their systems whereas older stuff doesn’t have it. It’s not real.
That’s not real. It’s just another distraction because there is crap going down in the US government.
This is the Mexican government.
It doesn’t matter. We talking about it right now. Why was it all over our newsfeeds? One of the other agencies was coming out with something.
The next thing is everyone is saying we need to start masking again. No, we don’t. Masks didn’t work the first time.
They do not work.
Social distance didn’t work. Closing down and shutting down didn’t work.
What did work was the mass jabbing because it worked exactly like people wanted. The bad guys wanted it to work because I have never seen so many sick people resurgence cancer and autoimmune diseases in my years of being in health sciences. The amount of destruction and death is unreal. I have to sometimes not think about it because it makes me so angry and so sad.
The worst part is you type in and you might not be able to do this on Google.
It died suddenly.
There’s that but you might be able to do it on Brave. I’m typing myocarditis and COVID and seeing what comes up in the search. There’s a lot of stuff that suggests there’s not a problem. CDC gov here has something that says there seems to be an increase. Is that an increase? I don’t know. Is that an end all, be all? Research has lots of problems. Can we trust any of the data? I don’t know. I heard Scott Adams talking about it and he said, “Do we know if people who are overweight got more vaccines?” We don’t. Wouldn’t that be an interesting fact to know?
People who were healthy during 2020 had no problems with this. People who had unhealthy lifestyles, too much body weight, and any comorbidities, which oddly enough did not include asthma and other respiratory problems were having problems with it. The question comes to is whether you are healthy and taking care of yourself, getting enough vitamin D, being active, and getting outside, generally, you had no problems with COVID-19.
Let’s get back to the distraction again, Aliens. Do you think they’re going to bring viruses with them when they come?
They already did. They dropped them off.
Do you think COVID could be an alien virus?
Who knows?
It’s from eating bats.
I’m certain it’s from a lab. I don’t think it was malignant. I don’t think there was an intention to release it.
Why would they even make it then? This is my whole thing. Maybe the lab leak itself wasn’t on purpose but the making of it is malignant. The reason they were trying to create it is bad.
There are so many problems surely with the fact that we were even making it in the first place. Gain of function research has so many problems because of the possibility of it getting released into the wild as it did. As I said, they were researching on purpose but releasing it to the public was a mistake. I believe the releasing of the public is probably more due to incompetence than it is to somebody who was trying to be mean or trying to release something out to the world.
It was really strong purpose. The timing of it, I do think there’s a possibility.
The bigger issue at hand is less of the on-purpose and more of the incompetence. Outside of chiropractic, we live in an interesting little bubble compared to working in the industry. My experience in the industry is I was the guy who brought the robots into the plant. I would set it up and I’ll learn a bit about their process so that we can optimize and make everything as efficient as possible. When I was done, I’d move on to another plant.
Outside of chiropractic, we live in an interesting little bubble compared to working in the industry. Click To TweetSome companies, very quickly, were my stars. The folks that I wanted to go work for because I knew they were competent and on top of their stuff. They weren’t messing around. There were others that I quickly realized this was going to be a problem and I was going to be here for a while. I’m not going to say which companies were which. I will say that if I worked in an auto plant, the odds are that I would never buy one of their vehicles. With the exception, and I will say it, Nissan was fantastic to work for. The old Saturn.
Saturn that’s gone.
Saturn that’s gone but back in ‘96 when I was there, they were fantastic. Others, I’m not going to say anything because you can get in trouble. Some companies were competent. They understand what they’re doing. If you’re producing glass and you’ve got a glass furnace that could have all sorts of problems and health issues for people, you’re going to be on top of it. Whereas if you don’t care as much or you’ve got other red tape, you’re going to go to the lowest common denominator and you’re going to do just enough work.
If we get back to the China thing about the incompetence, the Wuhan Institute of Virology might not be incompetent at all. What they were allowed to do were things that we aren’t allowed to do in the United States, which is the gain of function.
That lab was only a class two lab. Your husband probably knows more about the class labs and how much every lab is designed so that you can’t have something escape and how it can be detected. It’s still a matter of understanding what will allow something to break through and cause a potential outbreak like it did. Maybe it should have been a class 3 or a class 4 lab that they should have been playing around with to have this stuff.
Maybe we shouldn’t be doing this research on gaining function. We’re making things that will make humans sicker.
More likely to pass.
They want you to get sicker and want it to be easier to pass on to others so that they can release it into a population as warfare. The problem with pathogens is they don’t know borders. If you release it into the population, it goes everywhere. In this day and age, we see it in life as how it went from one place to another. Now it’s everywhere all the time.
The problem with pathogens is they don’t know borders. If you release it into the population, it goes everywhere. Click To TweetThere’s the argument that it could be selected for certain genetics. That’s the scary thing.
That is super scary because that can be used as genocide.
Very much so. It gets back to the point you made that they don’t care. The pathogen says, “I only attack this person. I don’t have enough of these people to attack. I need to learn how to attack those people,” and they learn. The scary thing is we are not all that different on this planet. Something like 98% of our genes are identical, even between you and me. That’s one to think about.
When you start realizing that goes across the planet, these things can’t and will find ways to take care of or to skirt past whatever safeguards people think that they have. One of the things that they should have said early on that they didn’t want to, but now it looks like the CIA was involved in trying to cover it up, was this was made in a lab. The people who were funding it should have gotten nixed, gone to trial, and potentially thrown in jail. If that was the pathway that it should go, I have qualms that it should.
At the end of the day, if they had said, “This is a manmade virus and we’ve come up with a vaccine. It’s a solution that will protect you from some said manmade virus except the virus keeps on being a respiratory virus as all respiratory viruses are. It changes frequently.” That’s been always the biggest problem.
Here’s the thing. What do I trust first? What do I trust more than a screwed-up virus? Do I have more faith that a virus that someone made in the lab will be fixed with a vaccine made in a lab, or do I have more faith in the power that made the body, can heal the body, and help overcome things? How long have we been on this little blue marble? Long time. How many things have we overcome? A lot. We’ve been through plagues. People have died in the past and I don’t know why they have samples of the black plague in some lab. I know they do because they’ve said they do.
That is a bacterial infection. I’m just saying that these days, bubonic plague would be at least somewhat treatable because it’s not a virus. We need clean water and stop getting bit by rats. The immune system is wonderful. I watched this video. It was this random YouTuber and he took a drop of his blood and he had some bacteria or something. He put them on the same slide and smooshed them down so that you could see the one single line.
He took videos of his white blood cells coming to the pathogen and exploding the bacteria. It was beautiful. It’s unbelievable. These killer cells that we have that will work perfectly if we are healthy enough for them to work. The thing is not having good communication between your brain and your body, poor diet, lack of sunlight, all of those things affect your immune system. You have the power inside of you to heal from so many things if you let it function the right way. That means maybe not doing some things that you like to do and doing some things you don’t like to do.
I’ve got more patients. One of my patients was 82 or 83. She’s like, “I do not miss my chiropractic appointment because I know I will be able to be stronger and keep on going.” She hit the gym as she always does before she comes in to see me. She was holding her adjustment and she was happy that she was holding her adjustment because she’s been running around like crazy. I’m like, “Go take a nap. You deserved it.” This is why we get our heads on straight. This is why we get adjusted for our immune system.
Neck and back pain are important but it’s not about just that. It’s about your whole body being healthy. You have the power. You have to unlock it.
It is time we need to wrap so you get to your thing because you’ve got stuff and you’ve got kickball. I’ve got my smoker to put together. I don’t know if that’ll happen.
You do smoker? I was considering buying a smoker.
I’ll let you know because this is the same one Dr. Vanos I told Tim to get and he loves it.
Let me know how it is or you could smoke me some meat and I’ll come pick it up.
I may have to do that next time you’re driving through. Dr. Bagley, where can they find you?
You can find me in St. Louis. I am Precision Chiro STL. We are on the West side. You can find us on all the socials and we are a lot of fun. Come find us.
I’m at Keystone Chiro SPI in Springfield, Illinois. Give us a call if you are looking to figure out ways to improve your immune function and improve your overall health and well-being. We’re the people who can help you and you don’t have to drive 2.5 or 3 hours to get that improvement. You have a great week. We’ll see you next time.
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